I'd still like to see it put to vote. Elite setup men have bigger roles now more than ever.  The saves plus holds cat(potentially) is one of the most concrete pitching categories as SP font go deep into games anymore and wins are based mainly on what an SP team does with the bats.  It's ghe luckiest/ unluckiest category out there.

Rock, at least the league is alive again. 

And you want to make them more valuable by giving them an extra cat?

One thing I've learned this lifetime, I can't change a person's mind. The most I can hope for is change your perspective. If I can't do that, then this is just mental masturabation. I shared my viewpoint, you all shared yours. If Bird feels the needs to entertain this I'm good. 15? years though, I doubt it.
 

So here's what I'm interpreting, or at least my opinion on the suggestions above...

Convert 2 P slots to SP slots to help reduce value of closers.  I understand this. I just don't think in this league, that this alone will swing the needle that much.  I'm fine with doing this, but we have fairly large rosters (10 person bench is a really large bench).  So I don't think you'd see people dropping relievers if that change happens.  They would have them still sitting on their bench, because at the end of the day, you're trying to get to 70+ saves. So it's worth a few RP sitting on your bench in case of injury or performance.  All this does is allow you to play 2 less. But I don't see this drastically changing the value of RP's or freeing more up.  Maybe a couple, but I think you're still going to see a lot of teams with 6 RP's just trying to hope they luck into a closer down the road. I think this is proven already today by the fact that even though you can only pitch 6 RP's on any one day, there are 5 teams carrying 7 or more RP's.  There are 5 teams carrying 6 RP's. So I really don't think this change alone will make the impact that you expect in my opinion. It allows you to use less, but I don't think it's going to free more RP's up for others to grab.

Changing 2 P slots to SP slots to increase starters value.  Not sure this increases SP value either.  I have 6 SP on my team.  The odds of more than 2 of them starting on the same day is very low (especially since I pretty much own the whole Mariners rotation haha).  I'm also one of the only 2 teams that has less than 6 relievers.  Even with that, two weeks into the season, I'm projected to be over on innings pitched.  So as it is currently, a team that doesn't have 9 RP's constantly pitching, and only has 6 SP's to rotate through, I'm going to be over on innings.  So adding 2 more SP slots doesn't give starters any more value, because you can't even use their innings.  At best, it allows you to skip even more matchups.  To truly give more value to SP's, I think you have to also increase the innings limit.  That would allow someone like bird with 8 or 9 SP's to actually dominate the K's category and potentially the wins category as well.  He doesn't have to try to compete with teams that have a bunch of K/9 relievers, because he could actually use 200 more innings pitched and get more K's out of that.  So, I love the idea of changing the P slot to SP. But I don't think that alone does anything to increase SP value.  If anything, it now decreases my SP's, because someone else could stream average pitchers with good match ups, and probably get similar stats to someone like me who has an absolutely stacked top 6 SP's. I've been tracking roster construction for a few years now and based on innings limits, have figured out that going beyond 6 SP's on your roster currently is a bit of a waste, because you can't even get full value out of those guys.

Turning S into S+HLD.  I could get on board with this as well.  I don't think it's adding value to closers. In fact I think it decreases value.  The problem we currently have is that there's 30 closers, and everyone wants them.  Because if you don't have them, you can't win.  Adding in holds now turns that number from 30 guys, to 60+ guys available.  Sure, it increases the value of the setup guys, but it greatly reduces the value of closers, because a setup guy getting 30 holds is just as good as that top closer getting 30 saves.  It's all about Supply and Demand baby!  Now, like I said above, I think you would need to do that along with CJ's suggestion of flipping a P to SP slot, so you don't have someone with 4 top closers and the 2 best setup men running away with things. But if you combine those two, you greatly reduce the value of closers.  There's now twice as many arms available because holds count, but you have only 4 spots to use them.  Supply goes up (from 30 to 60). Demand goes down (from 6 available starting positions to 4).

I will say though that I think Rock said it, if we are doing that, I think you have to at least consider what other "new age" stats need updated?  Do you switch from wins to quality starts instead? Removing the offensive dependence?  Do you switch from BA to OBP? Given that BA is a dying stat?  Not saying you have to make those changes, but I think if you go the route of changing saves to saves plus holds, you owe it to the league to look at all stats to ensure balance.

Mays is not a great example to use when comparing to Jock Trap. Mays only has 7 bench positions, not 10. And it’s a year by year league, so nobody grabs young relievers for the future, because they can’t keep them next year. Plus I’d say the 3 less bench spots is the main driver there. If we went from 30 roster spots in JTL down to 27 you’d see guys giving up those extra relievers.  I get you’re trying to use an example to show it works. But Mays is too different to use as a comparison.